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Breakout Artist
alex11
Posts: 5,156
Registered: ‎02-13-2010

Re: WGWG RULE

[ Edited ]

luvmytee wrote:

You're right Alex but at least IMO they DON''T RULE.  The ones that rule for me are the ones who I don't associate with a guitar and who IMO changed the whole course of music from my mother's time and that would include Elvis and all those rock bands where sure the members played a guitar but NOT the lead singer.  And as far as I remember it, it was the band or group as a whole that ruled and not just any individual member.    Cause as I recall it, the lead singer would sing and then bow to the main guitarist or drummer or whoever. 

 

And that is why I believe this thread is so inflammatory and answered the way I did cause I also, maybe wrongly, saw hidden implications regarding our current winner based on what I have been reading here for the past weeks.  And those thoughts are really getting old and why even start threads like this when most of the posters have already left the boards and seems to me the ones remaining are just his fans who IMO are just trying to persuade the people still here that his win was justified. 


That's all fine, Luv, and you are entitled to your opinion, just as others are to theirs.  You don't think WGWG rule, but others do.  As is their right.  So, why respond on this thread at all?  If you don't care for the topic, why not leave it for people that do enjoy it?  Who does it harm?  I have now seen you post over and over about how it is all Phillip fans here pushing their opinions, and I think you see that because it is what you have convinced yourself to see.  I just saw someone on another thread dare to make the horrifying opinion that Jessica didn't connect with viewers, only to be immediately answered by three Jessica fans, in varying degrees of harshness.  Was that gang-like attacking?  Of course not, it is people standing for their favorites.  The fact is that Phillip won, and until we have another winner next year, he is going to be discussed.  As is the WGWG phenomena.  Just as it has been all season.  I think what you are failing to take into consideration is how much this was discussed long before Phillip won, so it is a bit of a chicken or the egg scenario.

Breakout Artist
amfan1
Posts: 4,072
Registered: ‎01-12-2010

Re: WGWG RULE


somethingnew wrote:

amfan1 wrote:

followthedream wrote:

You didn't address my questions.  What do you want to do about it? Do you think all white males who play the guitar should be barred from auditioning?  Do you think they should be penalized for being white and playing the guitar? Do you think those who are NOT white males and don't play the guitar should be given an advantage because of their gender, race or lack of ability?

 

Is THAT fair?  The one who gets the most votes wins.  What could be more fair than that? Why level the playing field just because the minority are not getting what they want?

 

The only one of the past 5 winners I have liked has been Cook, but that doesn't mean I think they should change the game because I can't win.  I would hate to see them start using discriminatory practices just because the majority of votes are going to a white male who plays the guitar.  

 

Handicapping a certain "type" of contestant to level the playing field is just wrong.  Maybe some viewers want a different "type" to win, but obviously the ones who vote the most don't.  

 

What exactly is "amiss"?  Everyone's favorite hasn't won?  Life is like that.  In the real world, everybody doesn't get a trophy


The only reason I did not answer your question...."What do we do about it"......is we have discussed it in length even more than this topic.....the voting system must change!

 

I truely believe in limited voting and that would welcome or encourage many more to vote, many more to "stick to who they like", and many more would vote for who was the best that night!

 

All these things would change who gets the lowest vote total each week and would, in my opinion, eliminate the "Shocker" weeks and the person who does best week to week would make it to the Finale week where again, maybe the better performer would win.

 

ALSO.......MAYBE in this scenerio PHILLIP would STILL have won but this is more "FAIR"!!  


 

Musicians who change up songs, who don't sound karaoke, who don't sing the same old songs that have been already done on the show, and who sing more current songs when they have a wide song selection option, tend to win the show.

These musicians tend to be 'guitar players' because this is the US and the guitar is probably by far the most commonly played instrument over the past many decades.

These are also contestants who start the competition knowing exactly who they are as musical artists who have strong ideas about which songs they will perform.

There is no reason to think changing the voting rules or means of voting is going to greatly change this outcome.


The one thing I will buy into is........TRENDS..............Maybe (?) this is just a trend and I can accept that.

 

It has been accepted by most that.......A Male Rocker cannot win......a Female Rocker surely has no chance of winning.....A Male R&B singer might go far but cannot win.......a Bluesy Female Artist cannot win.......the trend now is a Female will have to be Out-Of-This- World to beat a Male.

 

Is this good for the show?  At the start of this season only TWO had any chance of winning (Colton or Phillip).

 

Next year the "perception" will be even greater......just look at the Top 10, eliminate everyone except one type of contestant, DOES THAT MAKE IT FUN? 

 

It is a trend that is not a good thing!

 

  

 

   

Breakout Artist
amfan1
Posts: 4,072
Registered: ‎01-12-2010

Re: WGWG RULE


luvmytee wrote:

And just one more thought - this over the top type of thread and poster's comments on other threads either regarding Philliip or the concept of "WGWG's" which is just another way of implying Phillip is really I think turning off readers like me who maybe was not one of his ardent fans but was finally getting him to a degree.  You want to glory in his win, then go post in his own folder and let GD finally either be a general discussion forum or remain idle until next season.  Cause starting threads like this is IMO just asking for arguments and not rationale debates.  I see it as being inflammatory especially by using the word "rule." 


I do not see these types of threads as implying Phillip as the main target.  Meaning Phillip is not the issue,  I am one who says Phillip "EARNED" this Victory because of the final three weeks.  BUT I do argue the case of WGWG as a trend that is not a good thing, meaning other genres, and genders seem to have no chance of winning and THAT is not a good thing for a show.

 

The best thing is an open field where anyone can win.  That is not what we now seem to have with American Idol.

 

I find these threads important because we can discuss the way the show is going.  Phillip just happens to be this year's winner and his style is the trend and the topic!

Mentor
syblcat
Posts: 22,644
Registered: ‎04-23-2007

Re: WGWG RULE


poisnivyred wrote:
so what happens if we limit the voting to say, 10 phone calls and the 50 Facebook votes, then we have another 5 WGWGs win in succession? Will things be "more fair" then, so it's OK, or would we have to make more changes because that's still not fair enough? Voting isn't the problem, this is just the type of music and contestant that has been the most popular for the past 5 seasons. Trends happen in the world all the time without rule changes to prevent them from continuing. I get that it's frustrating, but I don't believe changing the voting system is going to change the outcome, you'll have to change the musical taste of the majority of ai voters first.

Those of us who want the voting system changed aren't demanding change just because we don't like how the contest has turned out over the last 5 years. As it is structured it is inherently not representative of the voters' preferences because most everyone votes a different number of times.I don't know that any results would change. I think they might-- but my expectation is that equalizing the number of votes each voter casts would have more effect at the beginning of the contest than towards the end.

 

It's just not the point that the result might be the same. The point is that if the vote is supposed to represent America's preference, then it shouldn't represent some voters' preferences more than others.

 

 

________________________________________________________
"I shot the Tambourine Man!"--Jason Castro.
Breakout Artist
amfan1
Posts: 4,072
Registered: ‎01-12-2010

Re: WGWG RULE


followthedream wrote:

amfan1 wrote:

followthedream wrote:

You didn't address my questions.  What do you want to do about it? Do you think all white males who play the guitar should be barred from auditioning?  Do you think they should be penalized for being white and playing the guitar? Do you think those who are NOT white males and don't play the guitar should be given an advantage because of their gender, race or lack of ability?

 

Is THAT fair?  The one who gets the most votes wins.  What could be more fair than that? Why level the playing field just because the minority are not getting what they want?

 

The only one of the past 5 winners I have liked has been Cook, but that doesn't mean I think they should change the game because I can't win.  I would hate to see them start using discriminatory practices just because the majority of votes are going to a white male who plays the guitar.  

 

Handicapping a certain "type" of contestant to level the playing field is just wrong.  Maybe some viewers want a different "type" to win, but obviously the ones who vote the most don't.  

 

What exactly is "amiss"?  Everyone's favorite hasn't won?  Life is like that.  In the real world, everybody doesn't get a trophy


The only reason I did not answer your question...."What do we do about it"......is we have discussed it in length even more than this topic.....the voting system must change!

 

I truely believe in limited voting and that would welcome or encourage many more to vote, many more to "stick to who they like", and many more would vote for who was the best that night!

 

All these things would change who gets the lowest vote total each week and would, in my opinion, eliminate the "Shocker" weeks and the person who does best week to week would make it to the Finale week where again, maybe the better performer would win.

 

ALSO.......MAYBE in this scenerio PHILLIP would STILL have won but this is more "FAIR"!!  



So if they limit voting and a WGWG still wins you wouldn't complain?

 

TBH, I visited all the folders during the season and the fanbase who discussed power voting tips the most was Jessica's.  She is DEFINITELY not a WGWG


Of coarse I WOULD NOT Complain if WGWG wins and the voting seemed fair. 

 

I have consistenly said that Phillip "EARNED" the Win because his final 3 weeks were very impressive.

 

It has always bothered me that million of Fans sit at home, have favorites, but do not vote because they see the futility in fighting an up-hill battle with the voting system.

Mentor
nycfan1717
Posts: 15,202
Registered: ‎04-27-2007

Re: WGWG RULE

If we're going to have a show just for the WGWG's, I demand one for the country singers too...:smileyvery-happy:

_____________________________________________________________
Kree's Kreepers #1
Finalist
bmoreidol
Posts: 2,726
Registered: ‎02-20-2008

Re: WGWG RULE


nycfan1717 wrote:

If we're going to have a show just for the WGWG's, I demand one for the country singers too...:smileyvery-happy:


I thought we already had a show for WGWG's????  Isn't that what we have been discussing for the past 5 years?

Finalist
followthedream
Posts: 1,754
Registered: ‎03-01-2012

Re: WGWG RULE


amfan1 wrote:

followthedream wrote:

amfan1 wrote:

followthedream wrote:

You didn't address my questions.  What do you want to do about it? Do you think all white males who play the guitar should be barred from auditioning?  Do you think they should be penalized for being white and playing the guitar? Do you think those who are NOT white males and don't play the guitar should be given an advantage because of their gender, race or lack of ability?

 

Is THAT fair?  The one who gets the most votes wins.  What could be more fair than that? Why level the playing field just because the minority are not getting what they want?

 

The only one of the past 5 winners I have liked has been Cook, but that doesn't mean I think they should change the game because I can't win.  I would hate to see them start using discriminatory practices just because the majority of votes are going to a white male who plays the guitar.  

 

Handicapping a certain "type" of contestant to level the playing field is just wrong.  Maybe some viewers want a different "type" to win, but obviously the ones who vote the most don't.  

 

What exactly is "amiss"?  Everyone's favorite hasn't won?  Life is like that.  In the real world, everybody doesn't get a trophy


The only reason I did not answer your question...."What do we do about it"......is we have discussed it in length even more than this topic.....the voting system must change!

 

I truely believe in limited voting and that would welcome or encourage many more to vote, many more to "stick to who they like", and many more would vote for who was the best that night!

 

All these things would change who gets the lowest vote total each week and would, in my opinion, eliminate the "Shocker" weeks and the person who does best week to week would make it to the Finale week where again, maybe the better performer would win.

 

ALSO.......MAYBE in this scenerio PHILLIP would STILL have won but this is more "FAIR"!!  



So if they limit voting and a WGWG still wins you wouldn't complain?

 

TBH, I visited all the folders during the season and the fanbase who discussed power voting tips the most was Jessica's.  She is DEFINITELY not a WGWG


Of coarse I WOULD NOT Complain if WGWG wins and the voting seemed fair. 

 

I have consistenly said that Phillip "EARNED" the Win because his final 3 weeks were very impressive.

 

It has always bothered me that million of Fans sit at home, have favorites, but do not vote because they see the futility in fighting an up-hill battle with the voting system.


My contention is those power votes are not  exclusive to the WGWG fan base.  I literally saw DOZENS of threads (with pages of posts) in Jessica's folder telling fans to take the day after voting off work so they could vote the entire time, plug in their phones so the battery wouldn't fade, having snacks around them so they wouldn't have to take a break to go get something to eat, and numerous other power voting "tips".  I didn't see those threads in Phillip's folder.  Yes there are fans who don't vote because they don't think their votes will matter (me included), but they come from ALL fan bases just like the power votes do.  People that will devote 2-4 hours of their time voting ARE more likely to spend money on the contestant's music whether it be albums or concerts.  They are passionate about their favorite. I believe all contestants have their fair share of those who don't vote because they don't think their votes count (including WGWG) and those who power vote.  I don't care if they change the voting system, but I don't think it will matter anywhere near as much as some claim.  For every group of people who don't vote, I think there is probably a power voter with the same favorite who is voting for all of them

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.
Mentor
nycfan1717
Posts: 15,202
Registered: ‎04-27-2007

Re: WGWG RULE


bmoreidol wrote:

nycfan1717 wrote:

If we're going to have a show just for the WGWG's, I demand one for the country singers too...:smileyvery-happy:


I thought we already had a show for WGWG's????  Isn't that what we have been discussing for the past 5 years?


FINE!:smileytongue:

I'd still like one for the country singers so I could skip it..:smileylol:

_____________________________________________________________
Kree's Kreepers #1
Semi-finalist
Harlequinmom
Posts: 829
Registered: ‎04-21-2012

Re: WGWG RULE

There was a show just for country singers a few years ago, don't remember the name but Blake Shelton and Jewel and one of the Big and Rich singers were judges. These shows come and go but are never as successful as Idol.